By now, I'm pretty sure the Romeike family is on the mind of every homeschooling family and most conservative Christians. Their trial to find out if they will be deported or granted citizenship is on Tuesday.
Libby Anne has posted a guest post that helped explain the legalities, and someone from HSLDA has offered a rebuttal. I'm not a lawyer and I don't pretend to understand everything that's happening. I know something smells fishy and I feel sorry for this family. But I'm not here to comment on the debate. Because something else is bothering me a whole lot more than this whole legal mess.
In Germany, it is illegal to homeschool. Refusal to put your child in a private or public school can cause parents to be fined, be thrown in prison, and/or have their children taken from them. The Romeike's pulled their kids out of school in 2006, 2 years before seeking refuge in America. They were threatened by fines and legal action and could have lost their children if they had not fled.
Did you catch that? They could've lost their children. They still could if sent back and they refuse to obey the law. It's happened before.
So these parents were willing to lose their children and their family for their religious beliefs. Not because their children were threatened by harm. But because of their religious convictions to homeschool and their belief it is their right.
And that is what makes me more angry than anything else in this entire situation.
They were willing to risk their children being taken from them, willing to have their entire family torn apart forever and passed around to who knows who, for their belief that homeschooling is their right. They were willing to stand on their perceived "rights" and risk terrible emotional damage to their children. They were willing to put their children on the alter of their religion and rights and sacrifice them. And then what would've happened? Their kids would've been put in school anyways! Only then, those kids would eventually have to face the fact that their parents' religion was more important to them then their own children.
They and the HSLDA and others I've seen writing their opinions on the matter say it is God's plan for parents to homeschool. Is it then God's plan that they lose their children? Is it's God's plan that someone else raise their kids while they sit in prison and congratulate themselves for standing for "what was right"?
Am I the only one that sees the messed up priorities here?!
Since when is sheltering your kids from evolution and sex education worth losing them entirely?
I'm no lawyer, but I am a mother. And I'll be damned if any of my religious beliefs or political rights are worth the lives and well-being of my children, worth fighting for more than my children. I hope the Romeike's can realize that before it's too late for them.
And if they don't....well....maybe those kids are better off with parents who care more about them than about their religion.
And don't come on here and tell me how heartless I am for saying that. I hurt for this family, the parents AND the children. I am mad at the way they've become pawns to the HSLDA. I am concerned about what will happen if they get sent back. But I am not afraid to stand up and say "wake up, and get your priorities straight". I hope it all works out for the best for them. But most importantly, I hope they realize what they have, their family, is worth protecting, even more than their own rights and religion.
Great post, Darcy. The thing is, they already are harming their kids by telling them that witchcraft is taught in school and planting fears and them, and then giving children fears that they will be driven away from them.
ReplyDeleteNow if they had peacefully moved to another country as a legal immigrant, that's fine.
But we know this is a lot of HSLDAs doing.
HSLDA deserves our thanks and prayers and thanks. As do the Romeikes. they're both doing the right thing. AND witchcraft and other worse stuff is taught, do you want them to lie to their kids and tell them that isn't being taught?
DeleteWe should stand with them, not against them.
I disagree - my parents homeschooled us and managed to get away with not registering us eight kids with the government because it was their fierce belief that the parents alone should be responsible for the education of their children. We weren't supposed to tell anyone lest someone report us to the Department of Family Services and we kids be taken away from our parents. My parents always behaved as though this were quite martyresqe but now I think they were stupid and unreasonable.Totally not worth losing us over.
DeleteAlso the HSLDA is not some bastion of liberty as I always thought when I was growing up - they are making it easier for child abuse to be covered up in homeschooling families. You should read Libby Ann's posts concerning this:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/04/hslda-child-abuse-and-educational-neglect-an-introduction.html
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/04/hsldas-fight-against-child-abuse-reporting.html
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/04/hsldas-defense-of-child-abuse.html
But you're parents didn't lose you......
Delete"I hope they realize what they have, their family, is worth protecting, even more than their own rights and religion." This is a subjective and evaluative statement, though. I'm not sure what your religious convictions are, so I won't comment on their value to you. But many Christians adhere to Christ's claim that His followers should be willing to abandon everything - even family, for His sake, trusting that He will take care of them.
ReplyDelete"Not because their children were threatened by harm..."
As far as I can tell from reading the articles, the Romeikes DO believe their children would be harmed by the German mandatory education. That's the whole point. You or I may not agree with their belief. But it doesn't seem like they're pointlessly endangering their kids. It seems like they're trying to protect them from a system which they believe is harmful.
^^as harmful as losing their children, who will then get put in the system anyway? I think not. A little perspective goes a long way.
DeleteAnd as for the first part of your comment, I am a Christian. But I also believe that actions have consequences. Sometimes God saves us from the consequences of our actions, but most of the time He doesn't. I would never make a choice, knowing the consequences would mean losing my family and causing harm to my children, and just expect God to save me from my own choices. They had other options that would've taken longer but didn't involve risking their family. They chose to break the law and risk their children instead. That is screwed up priorities. People do all sorts of crazy things that hurt other people in the name of their religion. That doesn't make them right.
Delete^^If they put their kids in public schools they are also loosing their children. They will be brainwashed in the government schools. So if their children were taken away or if they were in the government schools, the same thing would happen, they would lose their children either way. I think it very, very low of you to say all the things they're doing wrong when you don't know them and aren't in their situation, and obviously don't know their situation. This is the kind of thing where if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. Especially since you are completely, completely wrong.
Delete^^^^^ the system is harmful, that's why they were right to get away from it.
DeleteDarcy, on your second comment here, your not in their situation so don't pretend you are. It's very low. Please remove this entire post as your very very very very very very very very wrong. It's really disgusting the things your saying.
DeleteDude, are you so threatened by the opinion of a nobody blogger like me that you'd beg me to take down my post? Get a life.
DeleteI'm begging you to take it down because they are Christian who haven't done anything, and your post is disrespectful, and very unchristian, and a shame to see. But yeah, people still will see that post and it is horrible to say about a true Christian family.
DeleteYou are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to think it's horrible to place your religion and extra-biblical beliefs as more important than your children. You are NOT entitled to freak out and tell other people what to think and do. Not only do you look dumb, people will just dismiss everything you say. Control of information does not help your argument.
DeleteI think I've spoken the truth. That other "anon" keeps backing down and apologizing seriously! I'm standing up for what is right. But if you want to agree to disagree that's fine.....
DeleteHow generous of you. :P
DeleteEveryone has a right to their opinion. Darcy has posted hers and nobody has a right (anonymous) to tell her to take this post down.
DeletePersonally, I think that if they wanted to get away from the whole mandatory schooling thing they could’ve moved to another EU nation. I’m sure it wouldn’t be that difficult or at least just as difficult as moving to the U.S.A.
At first I applauded this whole Romeike family thing. However, the chance of losing their children does give me pause.
~ Wes
"Government schools" don't brainwash people. Brainwash is the term for psychological duress that public schools are prohibited from doing by law and by the fact that they operate in public, open to scrutiny by the public.
DeleteA home school, on the other hand, has opportunity to brainwash children and no legal constraints to keep them from doing so. If you are worried about children being brainwashed, then you should be worried about unregulated home schooling, not public schools.
Except for one person everyone I've met that was homeschooled said it was the best thing their parents could have done for them. They are all today strong Christians.
DeleteObviously, you don't know many homeschoolers. I know literally hundreds of homeschoolers that hated it, were damaged by it, were cheated out of any education at all, and refuse to homeschool their own children. Read websites like this and educate yourself. The problems in homeschooling are very serious and very real: http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/
DeleteSeriously! Very small circle, because I know lots of home school grads who are unhappy about their experience. Anon is just spouting propaganda, because there is NO WAY someone could be in the home school community for even five years and not know any stories of "rebellion" aka teens who won't be controlled any longer. And that's not even counting the fathers caught in adultery, kiddie porn, or domestic violence! Or the divorces when moms decide that they deserve better than patriarchy and oppression. Oh my, this Anon can not be telling the truth. No way.
DeleteI literally know WAY over 2,000 homeschoolers!!!!!!! WAY over that number, probably now that I think about it, more like 3,000 or 4,000 homeschoolers, who all LOVE what they are doing, plan on doing the same with their kids, and would NEVER do public school!
DeleteI don't know ONE homeschool family that has ANY of the "issues" that shadow spring mentioned. (i.e. rebellious teens, adultery, domestic violence, kiddie porn, etc.)
At least not that they've told you about. Homeschoolers are better at hiding secret sins than any group of people I know.
DeleteAre those "3000 or 4000" homeschoolers a random or representative sample of homeschoolers? The sample size doesn't matter if your sample is not representative of the whole.
DeleteAlso, I'm very impressed as to how you know so much about thousands of people. I doubt I've even met nearly as many people in my life....
Every day I go out and meet new people. I travel a whole lot, go to homeschooling conferences, plus my job allows me to meet a lot of people and like 90% of those people are homeschoolers. All of which I know very well, and am in contact with frequently. They have opened up to me with their problems, but strangely enough, none of those problems are homeschooling. Yesterday, I met 200 homeschool families, all who I've been in contact with since then.
DeleteI'm sorry, but you are misrepresenting homeschooling. I'm a homeschool mom, have been at this for 13 years and intend to keep going. I know many homeschool families with children who have rebelled, run away from home, had substance abuse problems, etc. I know homeschool families who have experienced divorce. I know at least one homeschool family in which the father was convicted of sexually abusing his daughter. I also know many healthy homeschool families. Your view is unrealistically positive. You are either being willfully misleading, or you have been misled.
DeleteAnonymous, I totally see your points. Yes, it is true that the Bible asks us to put everything, including our families, secondary to following Christ. But what Darcy's saying is that it's unhealthy to elevate a subjective topic like homeschooling to the same commitment level as "following Christ." Christ never commanded that parents do ALL their children's education themselves without outside help. That is not a condition of following God, and as such, is it really something that parents should risk losing custody of their children for?
ReplyDeleteI think what Darcy is saying is that it's sad and unhealthy that people view the homeschooling choice as being THAT essential to the mark of a true Christian that you should give up everything for it the way you'd give up everything for Christ.
It isn't sad. Homeschooling is the best way and worth fighting for. Witchcraft and brainwashing were being taught in their school. So obviously homeschooling IS important. VERY important. Again, we aren't in their situation, so unless you have positive things to say about them, then don't talk.
DeletePlease tell me you're not serious, Anon - witchcraft? And how exactly is "brainwashing" taught in our schools?
DeleteI was always warned about the evils of secular schools and was with the other old siblings homeschooled all the way through, but now thankfully the younger set is in high school now and are all attending a secular school and aren't indulging in witchcraft or being brainwashed in any noticeable way. In fact, I am now an atheist and having been homeschooled and attended a little Christian college and had the least outside "brainwashing" of anybody else in my family and yet I didn't turn out the way I was supposed to.
DeleteNowhere in the Bible is there any command to isolate one's children from society at large. Education wasn't even a thing for most of the time the Bible was written. Jesus didn't speak a single word about education. It's so crazy how these home school zealots make commands to home school out of thin air. The Deuternomy passage? Any religious parents can teach their child about God when they rise (in the morning, before school) as they go on their way (in the car on the way to school) when you sit at home (in the evenings, as a family) and when you go to bed. There is absolutely no need to home school as far as passing on the faith to your children.
DeleteWitchcraft, sexual education, and brainwashing were all in practice in their schools. One girl (from a different homeschool family from Germany) was taken to a school and they brainwashed her into believing horrible things about her parents.
DeleteI seriously, seriously doubt that you really know what brainwashing is, despite having quite likely experienced it. What I've discovered about people in cults - they throw "brainwashing" around as a buzzword toward people and entities they don't agree with or that challenge them.
DeleteAs to the "witchcraft" and sexual education, jeez.
It is a fact. World magazine talks of it. look it up.
DeleteAre you still here? I though you hated this blog and couldn't run away fast enough?
DeleteHah...I'd never heard of "World magazine", so I looked it up. Here's the description...
Delete"WORLD offers hard-hitting, truth-telling, uniquely Christian worldview reporting that stands in stark contrast to the mainstream media in these confusing, chaotic days."
Looks like the FOX News of Christian publications. They don't even attempt to hide their editorial bias (declaring it in the description), which actually puts them BEYOND FNC on the fringe. I think we've discovered your problem. Getting your information from people who've already formed opinions on your behalf.
And upon reading the World magazine article, I came away with about what I expected - propaganda about how those mean ole secularists are trying to eradicate the religious liberty of good God-fearing Christians. In other words, total, fear-mongering BS.
DeletePart of me suspects that the Romeikes don't want their children exposed to sex education (gasp!) and evolution (gasp!) because they're intellectually and factually ill-equipped to counter it with their own views...and they'd prefer to religiously brainwash unabated. I mean, most of the "persecuted" families mentioned are quiverfullers - who are probably completely naive to the origins of the quiverfull cult and the purpose of all of it.
World magazine isn't the only one who talks of it as a great disgrace......
DeleteOh, I have no doubt, whatsoever, that other propaganda sources similar to World magazine share the same view.
DeleteAnd the German government education system is much better than the one in the US, from what I understand, though German citizins are free to correct me. Their school day is much shorter than in America (aka, the parents would still have the majority of the day with their kids), all kids are bilingual and those on the university track are trilingual, and everyone gets a religious education (though a secular track is available, I believe), unlike America. In Germany its hard to get a job without at least a little English, so on that grounds alone, I can see why don't want homeschooling.
ReplyDeleteI understand your feelings, but I still can't help pointing out that this is the same country of the Hitler youth? They don't exactly have a good track record when it comes to active indoctrination through the schools. I am on the Romeike's side here.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I know, the family has not expressed any concern about that particular issue. From what they've said, their concern is secular schooling vs. homeschooling in principle, apart from any concerns over what their specific country used to indoctrinate children with.
DeleteIf this were a French family or an Italian family (I don't know if those governments allow homeschooling or not) would you feel differently?
Thanks for standing with the Romeikes. Good to see. I wish there were more like you.
DeleteWhat happened in German schools 80 years ago, under a Nazi regime, has next to no bearing on what's happening in German schools today. Don't fall for the propaganda.
DeleteFor some perspective, back when this was a "Christian nation", blah blah, etc etc...blacks and whites weren't even allowed to attend the same schools, and this is SINCE the Hitler youth. I think we're past segregation, so let's give the German people the benefit of the doubt that they got past the Hitler youth.
DeleteLet's give the Romeikes the benefit of the doubt that they are right.
DeleteSure. Let's also give OJ Simpson the benefit of the doubt that he's a really nice guy, but just misunderstood.
DeleteBetter yet, extend the benefit of the doubt to American and German officials in the handling of the Romeike case.
What you're asking me to do is to accept, blindly, that these people are doing right, despite my dominionist bullshit meter pegging way past the red about all of it and HSLDA's involvement/agenda. Only someone blindly allegiant to a specific sociopolitical or religious cause, such as a cult member, would ask this of me.
Whoa! I totally shouldn't have waited this long to check back lol. To the person who asked if I'd feel differently about another country, my answer is No. I believe parents should have the right to homeschool. I don't believe they should have the right to repeatedly strike their children as a form of discipline, but homeschooling is not synonymous with abuse. As parents we have the right to make mistakes if we think it's in our child's best interest. That is a fundamental right that should never be questioned. We also have to answer for the results to God, and if our mistakes bring physical harm, to the civil authorities. But the government is not there to prevent parental mistakes. It's none of their bloody business until someone gets hurt.
DeleteBack off my soapbox now hehe.
P.S. - I should add that I really don't know much about the details of the case and don't have time to look into it. I have no opinion on HSLDA as an institution. This is just my opinion on universal parental rights.
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DeleteFascinating post, Darcy. Something about this case has bothered me for sometime, but couldn't put my finger on it. You've articulated what I was feeling quite well.
ReplyDeleteAs a former employee of HSLDA, I'm a little hesitant to say this (which is why I've chosen to be anonymous), but it's important to remember that HSLDA has to stay relevant. Since homeschool "persecution" in the US has become much less in recent years, they have to find a way to keep people from becoming complacent. One employee told me once that the GOAL is to keep people afraid because if they're not afraid, they won't call their legislators and they won't renew their membership with HSLDA. Our membership numbers surged every time people got scared...fear was good for business.
I really think the Romeike family would be better off to either work within the system until homeschooling is legal, or move elsewhere legally. They could have moved to the US legitimately, but instead are now here seeking asylum because they chose to ignore the laws of their country. The entire thing could have been avoided, but of course, that wouldn't have been as flashy on HSLDA's homepage. :)
Anonymous, could you message me privately? I want to share what you've said here on my blog, but I don't want to do that unless I can verify it. I can promise you full confidentiality. My email address is lovejoyfeminism@gmail.com. Thanks!
DeleteMy guess is that HSLDA gave them bad counsel in order to make a newsworthy event out of their lives. HSLDA is all about bringing in revenue. They do not care about this family or their children, or anyone else's family or children either. Follow the money...
DeleteThat's not something HSLDA would do. They've helped SO many families, and they are going to help many more (including the Romeikes!!!)
Delete"That's not something HSLDA would do."
DeleteHaha.
Do you have any thing against HSLDA. Is it because they help people that you don't like them?
DeleteNo, he has a thing against misinformation and ignorance, like what you are displaying.
DeleteOh my gosh, this thread is so funny! It should come with a warning: "do not drink at your computer while reading this comment thread." So glad you joined the conversation, Lewis!
DeleteOn a more serious note: I used to shill for HSLDA. I was the "legislative liason" for our large home school support group, and attended the HSLDA Rally at the Capitol in 1999. While we were told the purpose was to put a human face on home schooling to our Congressman, when we got there HSLDA wanted us to push A+ Education Bill that would allow us to receive tax credits for our educational supplies. 0.0
I was not the only home school parent smart enough to know that this was a bad idea. I didn't want government handouts! I just wanted to show that home school families were decent people. My Congressman asked me if I knew about the A+ bill or cared. I said no, and I did not believe any of the families in my support group knew or cared either.
Then came the actual rally. It was right pretty plain that most of the speakers were reading talking points given to them by HSLDA to lukewarm applause. The whole thing was just HSLDA flexing political muscle, proving they could call on their members to jump and we would say "how high?"
And as far as helping people, the people that I personally know who were helped by them could have done just as well on their own if they had remained calm. Why were they not calm, when DHS knocked on their doors? Because HSLDA Court Reprot planted that fear in them, that's why!
Other families I know who dealt with unfounded allegations by remaining calm and letting the investigators see for themselves that all was well, also had positive outcomes. The only family I have even known to have a negative outcome was an ATI family, and that honestly was in the best interests of the children.
In my opinion, the Romeike's case and the rights they're fighting for go far beyond HSLDA or the religious aspect you brought out. The DOJ's argument that a nation that bans homeschooling violates no protected rights leads to government indoctrination in the schools. We have already seen this happening across the nation for at least a generation. I know parents who homeschool in order to expose their children to a more rigorous curriculum, and they can't afford private schools. Their children's state standardized test scores far surpass their grade levels (which says a lot about how low the govt. standards have fallen; And the kids love being homeschooled!)
ReplyDeletePublic education in this country is far from fine, and if the Romeike's are deported, the DOJ's arguments will provide precedents that are dangerous to our free society. On my website I've linked to some information re the Convention on the Rights of the Child. "Children have the right to live with their parent(s), as long as it is good for them." Who decides that? If the government ever has the sole right to educate our children, how slippery is that slope?
Thank you for helping defend the Romeikes and HSLDA. It's good to see someone who actually knows one of the major issue in this case.
DeleteThe DOJ isn't adopting German law on behalf of the rest of America, therefore, absolutely ZERO dangerous precedents will be set by any of this. This family desired to violate the law of their country, and then came here to be used by a largely dominionist political organization to make a sociopolitical statement that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with education.
DeleteUm, our freedoms in the US to homeschool are not threatened by whatever happens with this case. HSLDA would like you to believe that (it's called "propaganda") but it's just not true.
ReplyDeleteIt is true!!!!! completely true!!!!! This case doesn't just effect the Romeikes, but EVERYONE who has even a little bit of freedom!!!! this is worth, and should be fought over!!!!!!!
DeleteDude, have you tried decaf?
DeleteHave you tried reading their situation and the Bible? Because, your things do not represent a Christian spirit at all.
DeleteI have read the Bible. Many times. I have about half of it memorized. I've also read this family's story many times. My opinion is an educated one. And, I believe, very Christian, since Christians are supposed to be concerned with truth and righteousness.
DeleteLemme guess...you're about 16-17, homeschooled, very passionate, bit of an idealist, and your worldview is very narrow. You just happened on my blog and realized the world is not quite the place you thought it was and there are people that *GASP* think differently than you do. Don't worry, this will probably happen a lot to you in the next few years as you grow up and find out the big scary world your parents told you about doesn't exist. It's happened to most of us who were sheltered homeschoolers. Don't worry, most of us turned out just fine and are quite stable and happy. You'll get there too.
DeleteThat isn't my situation at all. Now you've misunderstood the Romeikes and my situation! After I respond to all your comments I plan on getting off for good. Again, let's agree to disagree. And um.......you really think I'm 16-17?
DeleteI'm hoping you are 16-17 because the thought of an adult with as little reasoning skills, reading comprehension, and grammar skills as you have shown is a scary thought and really reflects badly on homeschooling.
DeleteI wasn't homeschooled!!!!!! I was in public schools!!!!!!!! So yeah!!!! How's that public school thing again?
DeleteActually, on second thought, you write more like a 13-yr-old. So I'm going with that guess. A 17-yr-old homeschooler would be much more mature. (I hope)
DeleteOh yeah, those homeschoolers definitely know how to write. Wish I had been homeschooled.
DeleteBut sadly, few of them know how to think, for such is rebellion and witchcraft. They usually have to learn that for themselves...once they get away from the Christian homeschool movement.
DeleteAhem... As a homeschooled person who has chosen a very different path from my parents, I'd like to point out that I see tremendous value in the education I received and have no problem with homeschooling. I have a problem with isolating your kids from the outside world, which I feel was the cause of many problems I have had to deal with. Homeschooling only accomplishes that if the parents want it to. Mine did. I know others whose parents didn't, and they fare much better socially. There are others besides Christian Fundamentalists who homeschool.
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DeleteI think that while I agree, that I would have started fighting for my rights to so what I wanted with my children's education, in a way that would not have risked my children's wellbeing or risk them being taken from me.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that was healthy for their children at all. I don't know if there are other options for education in Germany besides state run schools, but I think surely they could have done something else. I am a homeschooler, but I am just not sure what I think of this.
I do think that we need to respect the rights of the parents as much as we can...in a safe way.
The Romeikes DID try to protect their children in a safe way!!!!!! That's why they came to the US!!!!!!!!!!!! Now they're not being able to teach their children the right things in the "land of freedom" That is the issue. And depending on how the case goes, it will be an issue for all of us.
DeleteThanks you Romeikes and HSLDA.
"I think that while I agree, that I would have started fighting for my rights to so what I wanted with my children's education, in a way that would not have risked my children's wellbeing or risk them being taken from me. "
DeleteYes, that would've been the wise choice and what I would've done. Fight within the law, or keep your kids in school until you can move to a safer place.
Oh and Martha, it's my understanding from researching that private schools are perfectly acceptable options too.
DeleteNo, they actually aren't. They are very bad over there.
DeleteDo you have links and citations for that assertion? Or are we supposed to just take the word of an Anonymous commenter? I've talked to other German Christians and read many sources for my information. I'm thinking you get your info only from HSLDA propaganda and other "christian" alarmist sites.
DeleteYeah, look it up!!! Better yet, do YOU have any thing to prove how "great" the private schools are?
DeleteI have nothing to prove. The burden of proof is on you (look up "burden of proof" so you know what I'm talking about).I'm not the one posting ridiculous propaganda on someone else's blog, too afraid to even sign my own name to my comments.
DeleteI know that following God has nothing to do with where your children learn to read, or in what society they grow up. If you want your children to follow God, then live the fruit of the Spirit every day. Be gentle, kind, loving and good. Be faithful, be meek, show self-control. Let joy fill your days coming from a heart at peace. Then no matter what you have to say to your children, they will listen and love you and want to be like you. You can't make them follow your ways by forcefully shutting out all other options. If your ways are not full of the fruit of the Spirit, they will still (and rightly) turn away, home schooling and isolation just mean life will be harder on them when they leave.
DeleteGal 5:22 "against such there is no law..."
I believe you've definitely misunderstood this family and their situation.
ReplyDelete1st. Whether their children were taken from them, or their children where put in government schools in the same thing!!!!!!!! Either way the government is trying to "own" their children!!!!!! They did the absolute right thing to not have their children in government schools, and to flee here where they can educate them.
2nd. The Roemiekes care so much about their children that they fled where they had been for ever so long so they could homeschool and protect their children. They knew that what their children were being taught in the schools was not acceptable. They were wise to pull them out of the schools before the kids minds were completely brainwashed. (Yes, one German girl was placed in a government school where they tried to brainwash her from her family and religion)So how would you like to have your children brainwashed form you? They fled for their children, and were willing to go to prison so their children would not receive such treatment. Also, since home educating was such a problem and they could have their children taken away because of it, that is why they came here!!!!!! To the "land of freedom"
3rd. The Romeike children also talked about the wrong things they were being taught in the schools. Home educating allows this family to teach their children the right things. Also these children are in complete support of their parents, because they know that their parents are doing what is right!!!!
4th. HSLDA is doing the right thing by defending this family, they are a wonderful family and should be allowed here in the US. As they are not doing anything wrong, but many things right.
5th. These are the Romeikes children, not the governments. . They are the ones properly educating their children and they should be allowed to continue that proper education here in the US.
Please do not post about this family, when you obviously have not heard the particulars of their situation.
Many thanks to the Romeike family for doing the right thing!!!!!!!!!!!!
Evolution and sex education aren't wrong. They just cause you, and others like you, cognitive dissonance. That doesn't make them wrong.
DeleteThey are wrong, completely wrong!!! Would you want you're children being taught that sex education is all good and right?
DeleteUm...what, exactly, do you think "sex ed" is? Because I certainly don't have a problem with it. But I'm thinking you don't actually know what that is....
DeleteUh.....yeah I do, and I just do have a problem with it,
Delete"Would you want you're children being taught that sex education is all good and right?"
DeleteJeez.
Children aren't taught what opinion to have about sex education. They're taught how their bodies and reproductive systems work through sex education. That's where a good, INFORMED parent comes in to help them work their way through what they've learned.
"Uh.....yeah I do"
DeleteThat is exactly what my brother says when he has no idea what I'm talking about. You're not my brother, are you?
I don't think you know what I am talking about.
DeleteWell there you are correct. I have no idea what you're talking about.
DeleteAnonymous poster from April 27, 2013 at 5:10 AM is partly correct. Sex education is not really a bad thing, just how people decide to use/interpret it. I believe that how public schools teach sex education is wrong (sex is good/fine, just use a condom/protection and IF something goes "wrong" just check out the abortion clinic next door, etc). However, if it just explained what sex was and that the best action is to remain celibate until marriage (which is meant to provide stability, benefits, care for a family, instead of "recreational" sex based on feelings for someone that often fail), that would be fine. But it seems to me that the idea being sex education is that "kids are going to have sex, so we might as well tell them how to do it and to try to avoid side affects", which is involving kids of rather young ages (middle school?), good to know those "in charge" expect a child to have sex, might as well be okay with an adult too, if we are teaching them how to have sex "responsibly".
DeleteAs for evolution, the same idea is there. There is a reason why many people, including myself, believe in Biblical Creation as opposed to the million/billion year theory, which has multiple flaws that cannot be explained. Correction, I would find it rather pointless to argue evolution versus Creation to an atheist or non-Christian because they already do not believe in the God that has explained the formation of the world. As for a Christian... I find it really awkward and almost "scary" for someone to believe in evolution. For one thing, evolution CLEARLY implies that there was death and suffering BEFORE Adam and EVE. And if that is true, it means that death and suffering are not sinful/wrong because sin did not enter until Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Now if that is true, then murder should not be wrong because it was not wrong before the Fall and eternal life was non-existent. And if someone believes that God just "changed" His mind over that, again, I think that is rather "scary". It is things like that which mess with our minds, no wonder so many people mock Christianity when so many Christians are picking and choosing what to believe, thus many Christians themselves losing their faith. Naturally, not ALL former Christians left for that reason, which I have not written, but many.
Considering that I figure evolution is a material taught as fact in Germany, naturally the Romeike family would want to steer their children away from it and teach their children the Biblical way. Yes, they could always send their kids to school, let them be taught sex education and evolution, and then re-teach them when they get home. Yet somehow, that sounds very non-productive even though possible. I disagree with this family breaking the law, but I do not disagree with them attempting to teach their children what they believe rather than conforming to what the government wants. I am sure there were other ways for this family to have gotten what they wanted without this situation, but sadly as human beings we are fallible and do not know everything which includes how to react in certain situations.
You are talking to the wrong audience. I am a Christian who accepts evolution AND the Bible just fine, and I believe that no matter what religion you are, you should be familiar with the accepted science of the day. I also have no problem with sex education. None of this is "persecution" and none of it worth losing your children over.
DeleteAlso, unless names are signed at the bottom of posts, I will be removing them from here on out. I'll give you a few days since your post is long ad you put some thought into it and I don't want it to just disappear. But if no one comes back and owns it, it's getting deleted.
Whoa, you accept Evolution AND the Bible? That's an oxymoron if I have ever heard of one.
DeleteSex education is fine if taught properly. I have relatives who are teachers and no, it's not taught properly or appropriately in public schools. Actually most public schools do very little to properly educate a child about anything.
Have you lived with your head in the sand the past 50 years? There are thousands of Christians, including scientists, who accept both Evolution and the Bible. It isn'a an oxymoron at all. Ever heard of Francis Collins? If you say no, I'm going with my head-in-the-sand theory.
DeleteDarcy, if you don't want people to call you heartless, don't publish something like what you did. Please remove it. It is very wrong. You should do some more research on this family, because you have everything backwards. Read the comment above mine. ^
ReplyDeleteMaybe then you'll see.
You have no call to write such things about Darcy. She is compassionate and kind, and seems to care more for these little German children than their own parents, HSLDA and these many Anonymous commenters.
DeleteDarcy, don't let these people get you down. They are just being defensive because they know they are bad parents, bad people, and they must isolate their children from any source that contradicts them or their children will figure out how fraudulent their lives are early.
What they don't realize is that their children will figure it out eventually anyway. Poor misguided fools.
I'm sure all the "anons" on here know she is compassionate, I think they are just trying to cut this poor family some slack.
DeleteDarcy,
ReplyDeleteYou are SO off-base here. Yes, it is a scary thing to possibly lose your children. But, remember they are not exactly at that point yet anyway. It is because of brave families like this who stand up for what is right that we enjoy the freedoms we have today.
"And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?"
Mark 8:36
"But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea."
Matthew 18:6
"If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine."
Matthew 10:37
These are hard truths, and this family is living them out before our very eyes. To allow one's child to be taught a non-Christian worldview 7 hours per day is just plain wrong. Now, granted, some Christian families have yet to be convicted of this. But, please do not condemn this family for first of all, realizing this truth, and then second of all, standing by it in the toughest of times. I am sure that God must be by their side through all of this!
^THANK YOU!!!!!!!! YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! AND HAVE HELPED SPREAD THE TRUTH!!!!!!!! THANKS!!!!!!
DeleteDarcy, you are very wrong and this is horrible that you would even put this. It's awful and untrue.
^^I just saw your post and let me say that you are very right, have spoken the truth and I very much admire you for it.
Delete*I'm* off base?? I'm not the one talking to myself on a blog......
DeleteI didn't post the "off base" thing so obviously others agree with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteI don't trust people who use the word "worldview". Not even remotely joking.
Delete"But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea."
DeleteMatthew 18:6
"If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine."
Matthew 10:37
These two scriptures do not mean the same thing at all. The first is highlighting the importance of children to the heart of God. God loves them. Their little hearts and minds matter very much to him.
The second is talking about people ditching you for doing the right thing. You are seeming to imply that the God who cares so much for these young children is asking parents to be willing to play Russian roulette with their young lives in order to "prove" their love for God? That is insane.
The opposite is true. They can prove their love for God by caring for the hearts of their children- not indoctrinating them, but truly loving them and teaching that love by example and extension to the world around them. Isolating and indoctrinating are the opposite of love, and God is not demanding that of anyone. Religion gave you that idea, not Jesus.
Wow Darcy, how dare you? How horrible of you!!!!! How dare you say that these children would be better off without their parents? That's horrendous!!!!!! And untrue!!!!!!! And guess what? No matter if things go terribly wrong for this family, and maybe their children are taken from them, God will be with them!!!!!!!!! They're doing the right thing, encourage them, don't spread horrible lies offering your horrible "opinion" of them. Terrible of you, I've got to say. And guess what sugar? it is God's plan for families to homeschool, so their doing EXACTLY what they're supposed to be doing!!!! So leave them alone, you are wrong. What you've said is disgusting. Be thankful that you don't lie awake at night wondering if your children are going to be taken from you. (And if this case goes badly, ALL of our freedoms as far as our children go our going to be taken away even more than they already have been.
ReplyDeletePraying and will continue praying for this family and for HSLDA.
Hahaha, "how dare you"???? And this from a person too cowardly to even put their own name on their comment. :P
DeleteYou know why I don't worry about my kids being taken away? Because I follow the law and I consider them more important than my religion.
I stopped reading Anonymous' comment in a serious tone of voice when they called you "sugar" Darcy. All I could picture was a gay african american man waving their finger in your face and giving you the neck roll. Anonymous you're SO SASSY. Oh yeah, and full of hot air.
DeleteSo are you saying that your kids are more important than Christ? interesting....... and the "ha-ha's" are really inappropriate when I'm trying here to defend a persecuted Christian family.
DeleteThe "ha-has" were my reaction to your hilarious and ridiculous comments. If you don't like what I write, you are welcome to read elsewhere. It's a free country.
DeleteExcellent idea!
DeleteAnonymous, I'm not sure what's worse...you commenting the same thing so many times, you commenting on your own comments, you freaking out all over my blog, your lack of reading comprehension, or your terrible use of grammar and spelling. If you keep spamming my blog, I'm going to start deleting your inane comments. I don't mind disagreement, but seriously? You need some lessons in internet etiquette.
ReplyDeleteAlso, my own kids are in public school and are doing just fine, thanks.
I'm sorry if I was rude, because I didn't mean to be. I will not be on here any more as I highly disagree with everything on here. you unfortunately have lied about me and the Romeikes. But as I said I'm not on here anymore. My thing was that it is disrespectful to disrespect a Christian family in a tough situation. they deserve our respect.
DeleteI'm sure now you will be praying for the Romeikes and HSLDA.
and homeschooling is the best way.
And I don't know what the "sugar" comment was, because that wasn't me. The one and only comment that I put was me was the 5 point one, although whoever the other "anonymous" is I agree with them, although I would have done it in a different way. so again when telling anonymous here to stop, that isn't me, as I just wrote the 5 point post only. So you probably are even talking to me when you tell me to stop. But JIC.
Pray for the Romeikes
OK so you're not the "Anon" that commented like they were on too much caffeine? This is why you kids need to sign your name at the bottom of your comments. And if you can't put your name on it, you probably shouldn't say it. I didn't think your post was rude at all, just so you know. :)
DeleteOkay thank you so much!!!!!!! I only don't sign my name for privacy. And the decaf thing wasn't me!!! :) thanks!!! God bless!!!!
DeleteExactly that! Thank you so much for posting this, Darcy. There are many issues here, but this is one that no one else has brought up that I have seen.
ReplyDelete~Sophie
Darcy, I would not put extra-biblical practices (religion)ahead of my children personally. But if asked to choose between my children and my faith I'd have to set an example that faith is the most important thing. I probably would not have drawn the same line in the sand as the Romeike family has. But, I am all for them being allowed to stay in the US. They have decided that this is part of their faith and this nation in many ways has been open to people with religious issues since our inception. Allowing them to stay is in line with the poem on the Statue of Liberty, "Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
ReplyDeleteWith silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
It costs you nothing to allow them to practice their faith, even if you do not agree with it.
JESUS would never ask you to make that choice, because choosing your children IS choosing Jesus: "whatever you have done to the least of these, you have done unto me".
DeleteNot really....
DeleteTo RELStuart:
DeleteYES!!!!!!!!!!! You are definitely right!!!! :)
Yes, really. Jesus actually taught that what you did to the least of these, you were doing to him personally. He really meant it.
DeleteI never said I don't want them to stay. I hope because of the hole they've dug themselves in that they DO stay. Otherwise who knows what will happen to them? That has nothing to do with what I wrote though.
ReplyDeleteI understand. Thanks. =)
DeleteI have several strong Christian, German friends. HS has been illegal in Germany for YEARS. Nothing new here. Education should be a lifestyle, not a location anyway. And yes, I would say the overall education of Europe is better than America. I did live in the EU for 6 years.
ReplyDeleteI think Darcy has a good perspective. There are other options for education. Info is all coming from the media any way, and, well they don't always get things right.
"I would say the overall education of Europe is better than America."
DeleteThat's something I hear a lot from people who've spent significant time there, and the numbers certainly do back that up.
I'm a Christian, and I homeschool my kids. I decided years ago that as much as I love homeschooling, should it ever become illegal again in the USA, I would put my children into public school rather than have them taken from my home. As Darcy pointed out, if the kids are in foster care, they'll be in public school anyway. So which is better? Kids IN MY HOME with grace-motivated parenting and loving support and open discussions of whatever they wish to discuss, or kids IN FOSTER CARE with strangers? I know many (most?) foster parents truly love the kids in their home... but they're not ME. (I also know a handful of foster parents are horrible & yet the system still assigns kids to them... but many/most foster parents would be fine.) I'm neither abusive nor a substance addict, so I do believe that my kids are better off with ME than with the emotional & mental trauma of being assigned to someone they don't know, even if those strangers are really good people.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Darcy, for putting this so clearly into words!
-- Emily
A couple of the anonymous people here reek of cult.
ReplyDeleteFear, lots of it, and the perpetuation of propaganda. That hook was planted DEEP.
The strange thing about this whole thing for me, is that the Romeike's come from South West Germany. They could so easily have moved over the border into Austria, Italy, or Spain where home-schooling is completely legal (and from where they can both work), and not been more than an hour or two (remember how small Europe is!)in the car from their family and friends.
ReplyDeleteThere are also plenty of Christian state schools in Germany, and I personally worked in a Catholic State school in Austria, where the academic standard is very high. I think the people who are talking about public school are only referencing public school in the US, in Europe we have many faith-based, state-funded, public schools.
It saddens me that there are people who are risking life and limb to reach countries that can offer them safety and asylum, yet the places are being given to families like the Romeikes.
even in some of those cultures their isn't as much freedom as their is in the US. And the Christian schools in Germany, our also not the best.
DeleteAs a British citizen who has lived in many places, I would argue that the US can be a very restrictive place to live. It rather depends on what freedoms you find important. Personally, I won't visit the US because I have found that I can't find anywhere that is genuinely free from guns and firearms.
DeleteI don't exactly follow what you are stating when you write "And the Christian schools in Germany, 'our' also not the best."
Did you mean "are not the best"? Or are you a German citizen stating that they "are not our best."
Either way, at no point would the Romeike's children have been denied a Christian education. And as I have pointed out, most Germans who wish to home-school, re-settle across the nearest border, and continue with their normal lives without the upheaval of moving the family to a different continent.
I meant the 1st one "are not the best" because the schools they aren't.
DeleteI have a younger sister who raised a daughter who ended up rebelling in her teenage years. I was soooo judgemental toward my sister believing her to be a horrible mother. I said some pretty nasty things to her and shunned her. Then I raised my son who grew up and rebelled as a teenager. I was beside myself in disbelief. I thought I had been a great mom. And I was! But our kids have to find their own way and I understand that now. I have since learned never to judge others-ever!
ReplyDeleteThough Mr. and Mrs. Romeikes are not our blood brother and sister, they are in Christ for those of us who call ourselves followers of Jesus. Satan loves it when Gods children are divided. Let us not stand divided, but together. We are supposed to be praying for one another not picking each other apart.
There is only One Judge, God Himself, who will judge each person according to what they have done, not whether or not we judged someone's situation correctly. Let's go about the business of making God known in the way we speak and act and the good that we do. We only have a short time on this earth. Let's make it count for Him!!
I very much agree with you on the comment. :)
DeleteYou must not have read much of my blog. This is a place where truth is told. I don't pretend here; I don't gloss over sin and abuse here. I say it as I see it; I shine light into dark places; I speak when others have told me to be silent. And often the things that lurk in the dark corners of Christendom are very ugly and need to be exposed. If you cannot handle that, you are free to read elsewhere.
DeleteI just got on here (hadn't seen this post yet) and read ALL the comments on here!! Wow! Y'all have some serious beliefs on this!
ReplyDeleteDarcy,
On first hearing about this family and their story I was very skeptical, with many of the same concerns as you. So I went home, researched them, watched the Romeike story video, read HSLDA's side, and read articles from many people who like you are very against them.
After researching this EXTENSIVELY being in contact with HSLDA, receiving e-mail updates on this family, and reading many more skeptical peoples thoughts, I prayed.
Yes, I prayed that God would give me wisdom in this matter. It became clear to me that God wanted me to help this family. Because it became clear to me that this family is a strong Christian family, who need our help right now.
So........ First I signed the petition! Second, I told almost everyone I knew to sign the petition! Then I came in deeper contact with them and HSLDA to see how I could help MORE!!!! But most of all, I prayed for this family (and still am praying) because it became very clear to me what this family is and what they are trying to do.
Again, I was skeptical at first too, but after doing hours of research, and praying I knew that I was to help this family in every way possible.
Darcy and others, I know we must be aware of the propaganda all around us, but this is not a case of that.
They love their children SOOOOOOOOOOO much, but as it should for them Christ comes first and foremost.
Their children love them SOOOOOOOOOOO much, but they all know what they and their parents are doing is the right thing, therefore they are in full support of them.
So they didn't have to give up their children they came here, where they could home educate their children in peace. So they wouldn't be separated from their children, they came here.
Now, if you are still skeptical, please research more, or reply to my comment here. And I signing as anonymous only for privacy, as I do sign everything as anonymous on the internet.
1. I have researched just fine. I've even talked to a few German Christians who have kids in school and don't understan what the hullabulloo is all about.
Delete2. I have no doubt that they love their kids. But they have been sold a bill of goods and have accepted the lie that their religion is more important than even keeping their own children. And by "religion" I don't mean "faith". I mean extra-biblical rules that certain people have made up and are "teaching as doctrine the commandments of men". This is wrong.
3. Children who are brainwashed to think that going to school will send them hell, will of course think their parents are right by risking losing them to keep them out of school.
4. They never even should've gotten to the place where it was lose their children or seek asylum. That was very unnecessary.
5. Just because someone disagrees with you, does not mean they haven't thoroughly researched the subject.
6. I'm really tired of dealing with all of you Anonymous people. You all have the same bad grammar, infatuation with punctuation, and poor reading comprehension. You are either lying and are all the same person, or you'er all from the same family because your writing styles are identical. This is the last Anonymous post I am allowing in these comments. If you do not put a name on the bottom of the post, I will delete the comment.
Oh, I'm so sorry if my comment came across that way to you! I have not commented on this post except for the one I just did. So I'm not all the other anons. I certainly did not mean to tire, or offend you in ANY way, so please except my most sincere, and humble apology if I did.
DeleteAs I said before, I always sign anonymous when on the internet for privacy reasons.
Again, if I have caused you any distress or weariness please forgive me.
It was my believe that my comment was displayed in a Christian manner, but sometimes things sound differently over the internet. So therefore, my comment might have not come across the way I meant for it to.
This is your blog, and you are welcome to post anything you like, without others all over you for it.
Again, the comment I posted meant purpose was just to give you something to think about.
Did my comment offend you?
Once more, I'm very sorry or anything unchristian, ungodly, or rather mean-spirited I might have said without meaning to.
No, your comment did not offend me in the least. I don't get offended easily. But so far, this is the 5th anonymous comment that looks identical to the others, where refusal to own up to the words written were excused by "privacy". You must not have ever heard of IP addresses. If you want privacy, you should never comment on the internet. I just like to know who I'm talking to, and when there are several people who all sound the same and none of them are willing to own up to their words, I get annoyed.
DeleteI can heartily assure you that I am not the same anonymous. Sometimes I'm afraid I type to fast, and then I am prone to make mistakes. :) So that my be where our writing styles are "identical"
DeleteI'm very happy to hear I didn't offend you.
I do agree probably is the best idea for me to comment on the internet!!!!!! :)
OOPS!!!!!! See I just made a mistake cuz I was typing to fast. ^What I meant was "I do agree probably ISN'T the best idea for me to comment on the internet." Sorry I messed that up!!!!!! Again, I try to type way to fast. Plus, my grammar skills have always been very poor, since I was in a car accident that damaged my brain so that at the age of 15 I had to relearn EVERYTHING!!!!!!!
DeleteThankfully to day, 30 years later, I have gotten my mind restored by the greatness of God. However I still struggle with many things, and grammar is one of them. :) Please accept my apology.
What about using something like "Anonymous1" to distinguish oneself while still staying relatively anonymous? Darcy, what do you think of that approach?
DeleteI have not read all the comments, but here's my question... Suppose that the schools WERE teaching something truly terrible? Like Hitler Youth terrible? Would it then be terrible to pull your kids out, refusing to let the schools teach them such things? And is it reasonable to think that maybe you pull the kids naively believing they won't really come after you? And is it reasonable to think that when they do come after you, you would rather flee than put your kids back in the school that was teaching something terrible? Because that's how I read this case. Maybe I am missing some facts- but if, here in America, my kids were being taught terrible things - like being forced to ask for a lesbian kiss as part of an anti-bullying campaign, or being taught that abortion was AOK, and even offered abortifacients from the school nurse, or if they were teaching my third grader how to put a condom on a banana, or if they were making them trample all over a picture of Christ ( all of which have happened here in the good 'ole USA)- then I can assure you I would pull them out even if it was illegal. Because I HAVE LOST THEM ANYWAY if I allow them to be taught evil as if it's good and right. I would attempt to fight my battle legally, and if I failed, I would run and seek asylum where I could keep my family intact and still not have them taught the things of the devil on a daily basis. Just sayin.
ReplyDeleteI highly disagree, but that's all I'll say, because I think others have laid it out pretty clear. :)
ReplyDeleteSorry, which part did you disagree with?
ReplyDeleteYvonne
Not YOUR comment, Darcy's!!!!! :) I agree with yours!
DeleteOkay, so now I've taken the time to read every last comment. (Yes, even all of your childish wherein you guess the ages of anonymous commenters -rolls eyes)
ReplyDeleteI am 43. I have 6 children. I don't believe all schools are evil. However I did homeschool my children until 2011, when my mothers health declined and she needed much of my time. My children now thrive in a public charter school and middle school. They were never socially isolated- they participated in sports, music, church groups, homeschool groups, etc. All of them are well above grade level in every subject. I never chose home education because I was afraid of evolution, but because I wanted them to learn about it in the right context and to also learn about creationism. I WAS worried about sex Ed, because they teach way more than how our bodies work. Examples in my first post. Mostly though, I thought I could do better with a class of 6 students I knew extremely well than a teacher could do with 20-30 kids she barely knew.
However, this case is not about what Germans teach in school. This case is about children and whether they belong to the parents or the state. Even of every single thing the school taught was perfectly inane with their values, parents have the right to raise their children how they see fit, barring abuse.
Btw, any typos or grammar errors have nothing to do with my intelligence and everything to do with this app not letting me go back and correct things.
wow - it is interesting, how many of you are on here discussing the Romeike family.
ReplyDeleteIt might be worth your while, to be informed about the HSLDA- this was a test case for them- they say so about this cause.
If this asylum holds up, many more will follow and HSLDA will be in the middle of it.
There was nothing political asylum worthy with this family.
They were approached by the HSLDA and assisted then by the HSLDA to break the law of legal immigration.
Political persecution is, where you fear for your life.
That was not the case here.
Noone disputes their right to homeschool their kids, however other immigrants had to file legally- why should they be exempt from that?
Last but not least there is an explanation why Germany has been so resistant to change the ruling about homeschooling.
There are many Turks and other Nationalities within Germany and also many religious fanatics.
These people use homeschooling as a way of indoctrinating their kids, not just teaching the. They also do not let their kids have normal lives outside of the family. That has made for many problems.
Now, if the german government only could come up with a monitoring system and conditions to meet when home schooling- all this would not have come into play.
As for the Romeike family- let them apply for legal immigration to the US, if that is , where they want to make a new life.
And if that involves going back for a time and doing all the legal requirements for legally coming here--no one would object--but of course that would take the gas out of the HSLDA tank and the feather out of their cap and they will have failed with their test case. And they will not find other families to test case as a slap into the face of legal immigration.
I think their is one of the things that most of you are overlooking. The German schools are different then those in the US. So if you have had a child in a German school, and completely know what is going on their, then you might know what you are talking about. But if you don't then you can't say that the German public schools are SO GREAT!!!!! I didn't have a child in a German school, but I used to be a public school teacher. After 3 years of doing that, as much as I liked teaching, I quit. I had recently attended a homeschool conference (a friend had asked me to go with her)EVERYTHING that was said their made sense. So I examined the Bible and my heart and knew that I needed to homeschool my kids. At the time that I quit teaching, I was married, and had one small child. My worst day of homeschooling is way better than my best day of teaching in public schools. Now I have 5 children. My 4th is a special needs child. Not very severe just autistic. So then I thought, "I love homeschooling, but can I do it with this child"?? I found some outside (non-public-school)classes for special needs children. So I mostly teach that child at home with the exception of very few classes. So if you have a child with issues, I believe the argument can be made for public schools. If you are a single parent, the argument can be made.
ReplyDeleteBut the issue here isn't whether or not public schools are great, it's whose children are these??
The answer? These are the Romeike children. These children belong to their parents.
My oldest child just recently graduated with a 33 on the ACT. So I homeschool, and my kids are smart.
Now, I mean no hard feelings by this comment, but I am not afraid to speak the truth.
Also, Darcy, people HAVE said the "these parents were willing to lose their children" thing. BUT, that has been addressed! :) And what the response was...."We didn't lose are children. That's why we came here because we thought we would be able to protect them. We haven't done anything, we just want to teach them wrong from right." (That isn't word-for-word, but that's the basic response. :)
I'm so thankful for my decision to homeschool. After telling one of my teaching friends about the conference I had attended, she told me that although she hadn't been blessed with kids, if she ever was, she would definitely homeschool them. She wouldn't even be WORKING in a public school if it wasn't for her husbands lay-off.
So.......to sum up. Why don't you (Darcy) get in contact with HSLDA and bring up with them some of your arguments?? They might be able to better explain/refute them better than I.
So Darcy, I just have top ask, would you mind telling me where you got all your "info"??? And just how much research did you do??
ReplyDeleteI've met this family, they are fantastic, do you know them?
And while I know others would disagree, if I had to choose Christ vs. My Kids as hard as it would be, I would choose Christ. And I would have the comfort (despite how hard it would be to be separated) of knowing I obeyed God's will.
BTW, I know you aren't heartless, but I think you might be confused.
And I believe it my position (as a Christian) that if one is very wrong in their accusations, then it is my Christian duty to correct them. Because (meaning no disrespect) you are terribly mistaken)
Now please don't be angry. As I said, you are a great person, just confused. As we all are sometimes. :)
Please respond back telling me that you were all wrong and that you would like to hear how you personally can help this awesome family!!! (As I'm sure now you understand) :)Have a good day!
"And while I know others would disagree, if I had to choose Christ vs. My Kids as hard as it would be, I would choose Christ. And I would have the comfort (despite how hard it would be to be separated) of knowing I obeyed God's will."
ReplyDeleteI hope you never ever have children. Oops...there I go being "confused" again. Do you want to play Holy Spirit again and give me a slap on the hand to make you feel better, having done your christian duty? I'm not angry. I'm more amused than anything.
I could tell you where I got my info, but would it matter? I think I need to save my pearls for now.
Oops! looks like I struck a nerve! Sorry!
DeleteI have 2 children. We are very happy, I love them ever so much, and I am so blessed to have them. My husband and I have prayed and talked over this a whole lot. We've talked to our kids a whole lot about this. They are mature enough to understand the issue here.
I truly believe that as a Christian, if someone is slandering a Christian family then I should do my best to stop that.
Also, the Lord has BLESSED us with children. So.....if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have our kids. Therefore, Christ vs. My kids I (and hopefully any other Christian) would choose Christ!
So.... you haven't met this family I presume??? :)
No nerve, I just thought your comment was stupid.
DeleteAnd sex makes kids, because that's how God set it up. Following your logic, God "blesses" children specifically to those that beat, molest, neglect, and kill their children; he gives them to single druggie moms and women who were raped. Would you say that God blesses gay couples and atheists with children too? Or is that one a mistake in your eyes?
And, yes, I think that people that put their religion before their children should not have children. Not taking that one back, not sorry for that opinion.
Okay, I'm not arguing on sex-ed in itself, I'm ageing about the WAY it is taught. I believe that it should be taught by the parent.
DeleteAnd yeah, I know many atheists who had Christian children! So instead of saying that a child ha an atheist parent, we should say that and atheist has a Christian child!!!
Now let me point out how much you and the Romeike actually HAVE in common.... 1st, You are both Christians. 2nd, you both have children. 3rd you both believe in freedom.
Don't you see that this case doesn't just effect the Romeikes? It effects all off us. Not just homeschoolers.
"If you give up your rights now, don't expect to get them back."
~Rand Paul~
So......do you really want to wonder when your kids will get taken away?
I'm sorry you see things this way......
I also just FYI don't believe homeschooling is the only way. I think sometime (very rare) Christian schools should be used for kids. But not public schools...... Also, the US is SOOOOOO different from Germany. Here if you don't want to homeschool........... you
just go find a good Christian school. There if you want to educate your kids rightly, and keep their minds from being polluted you have to homeschool. It's the only way. Period.
Don't discourage them, pray for them.
Also, I obviously struck a nerve judging by your mean-spirited response. No harm done though.
oops^ I meant "arguing on the way it is taught"
DeleteLike I said, no nerve. I was just being blunt, which is my MO, which you would see had you read any more of my blog. I just say what I think, that's all.
DeleteMy kids are in public school and we're all quite happy with that. No pollution of minds going on here. That's what happens in church, not school.
I may have those 3 things in common with this family, but there is one areas we are opposite: I would not risk losing my children over a method of education. Period. And if you think this case somehow effects all of us or is a prediction of some dire doom that will end with all of us losing our children, then you've been successfully brainwashed and bought the HSLDA lie hook, line, and sinker.
Eek! I stumbled on this blog and then spent too much time reading through all these comments. This is certainly a hot button issue no doubt and somehow has managed to call people's character into question. People who don't know each other - shoes they've never walked in. There is a whole lot of judgement and defensiveness going on here.
ReplyDeleteTina
I think that if the Romeikes are following God's will for them that He will protect them. If God wants them to homeschool and the state says "no", then God will protect the family if they are His. He is not a "hands-off" God. God always comes first, and if we follow Him, His promise is to care for us.
ReplyDeleteSo I don't know if you'd say that that Romeikes put a belief first, or their God first. I'd say their God.
Nope, they put extra-biblical, man-made rules before their children. And, I would add, before their God, since God did say "if you've done it to the least of these, you've done it to Me."
DeleteYou make the concerns parents have about public schools sound so trivial. I tell my kids I would homeschool whether I was a Christian or not. I homeschool because as a child I found the whole school process demoralizing and dehumanizing. I have no problem with being able to counter a sex ed class with my family's view, or telling my kids to think critically about a viewpoint of history they may be taught. I do have a problem with teaching kids that they are robots that need to spend hours a day in a concrete building for twelve years to be "educated" and that they are not in charge of their own lives-so much so that if their maturity level isn't in step with their peers they should be drugged to correct whatever is "wrong" with them. I have problems sending them into an atmosphere where I know bullying is a major issue-well I remember my own problems with it as a child. I have a huge problem with school. If you want to say it's a mere "religious" view, then your idea of religion may be different than mine. My religion tells me I treat my children as worthwhile, God created human beings and in respect for that, I don't send them to school. I wouldn't send a dog I liked to those prisons they call school.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree. The issue might not be what they are teaching, but what they make those kids do every day, all day.
DeleteMy kids are in public school. So your hyperbole is laughable to me.
DeleteOh, and they love school and are doing great. My 1st grader is reading at a 4th grace level, my autistic Kindergartener is making friends and reading at her level when 2 years ago, she couldn't even speak. They are thriving and blossoming and can spell better than some of the commentors here. :P
DeleteI think some fundy went and shared this and told their minions to go put the evil anti-homeschooling feminist in her place. Heh. You people sure care an awful lot about the opinions of a nobody on the internet. With friends like you all, the church doesn't need enemies. Do you really all think God needs you to defend Him, if He and his ways are what is under attack here? Because the God I serve doesn't need me to go spam a nobody blogger I don't agree with.
ReplyDeleteDarcy, I'm surprised at you. How is enforced schooling egalitarian? You grew up in a certain situation which you are reacting against, and I totally get that. You were bullied. My hyperbole is not exaggeration. I grew up in the public school system. This was my experience. You have no right to say my experience is exaggerated any more than I have a right to say your perspective is exaggerated. I was bullied by a public school system that ruled my entire childhood in a very negative way. And you assume a lot if you assume I'm a fundy, or *that* kind of home school mom. I actually agree with you much of the time, about your analysis of weird courtship models and the way some home school girls are made to dress and things like that, and I've left comments saying so then too, though not always. I didn't get this off some link, I just check in on your blog from time to time. But this isn't about fundy homeschooling, or Bill Gothard or whatever. This is about freedom of education. Christians aren't the only ones who should have the right to school their kids as they wish, all people should have that right, and I would support the family fighting for freedom of education in Germany if they were New Age or Atheist or Muslim. People should have choices.
ReplyDelete1. I did not say your experience was exaggerated. I believe you can only speak for yourself and that applying your horrible experience to every kid in public school is wrong. That goes for homeschoolers too. Some of us had great educations, some did not. You can certainly own your experience but do not try to put it on anyone else and say "this is how public school is" or else you make the same mistake as an anti-public schooler that the anti-homeschoolers make.
Delete2. I'm very pro-homeschooling. I think homeschooling is great. But it's not the most important thing and it isn't a hill to die on and it certainly isn't worth losing your children over.
3. Who said anything about "enforced schooling"?? I certainly didn't. And what does that even mean?
4. "freedom of education" is a wonderful thing. It's also an American civil right, not a German one. Breaking laws that will probably cause you to lose your children and any freedom you have for them is WRONG. There are much wiser ways to go about gaining that freedom if you live in a country where you don't have it. Ask the people who changed the laws in our country. They weren't the ones hiding in the middle of day in fear their kids would be taken away. They were the ones that fought in the places of lawmakers and gave us that freedom. That is when HSLDA was very much needed and very helpful for the cause of homeschooling in our country. They've gone way downhill since then and while I admire their efforts in my generation, I have no more respect for them today.
5. My point of this post was not to argue law. My point was to show that putting religion before your children is wrong.
My family and I were due to come to the US earlier on in the year. However, various things prevented us. One of which was that we couldn't find any gun-free zones to which we could comfortably take our family. Is there anywhere in the US that is genuinely gun-free? If not, would US families like to start applying for asylum in the UK and Europe where we have tighter gun controls? Where they can be sure that no-one on the street is legally carrying concealed? If you are genuinely fearful of the millions of firearms in the US, should you not be able to claim asylum in another country?
ReplyDeleteWell, the right to freely bear arms is part of our constitution. Americans aren't going to give that one up any time soon. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other places to live. I personally own and shoot several guns so I don't understand the fear of them. But whatever floats your boat.
DeleteMy point was that home-schooling has never been legal in Germany, in the same way that carrying guns in the US is legal. I was trying to draw a parallel with the Romeikes; seeing how Americans would react to US citizens claiming that they needed asylum from something which had not changed legally during their lifetimes. Maybe I was being too obtuse. As you point out, it's completely normal for you to carry guns (although it scares the bejeezus out of me!), in the same way that it is completely normal for all German children to attend school. Like you say, Americans aren't going to give up their rights, so why should German nationals?
Delete"Where they can be sure that no-one on the street is legally carrying concealed?"
Delete----I'm not concerned with the people that are legally carrying concealed, I'm concerned with the criminals that are carrying them because they don't follow the law.
"Gun-free zone" does not mean crime free zone
Thank you, "Anonymous"! You have just proven my case for me.
DeleteWhat the German people are saying is exactly what you have just said - 'We don't mind education in properly state-sanctioned settings. It's those people who are educating illegally, who don't follow the law; those are the ones we're concerned about!'.
Baroness, OK I think I understand your point now. I missed the correlation you were trying to get across earlier. My bad. :)
DeleteCanada often gives asylum to Americans who are pacifists during war times. and Americans are able to forgo immunizations by signing a religious exemption as well. Why should the bar suddenly be raised to total consensus within the Christian community for an exemption, and what can you find that all Christians agree about that would be eligible at all since we don't all agree on anything? Freedom of conscience when you don't agree with the mainstream religious community is what we're supposed to be defending in the country, and if you don't have that do you have any freedom of religion at all?
ReplyDeleteYour key word is "American". You cannot compare the laws of another nation to ours and try to justify people breaking the laws of their nation because *we* have those freedoms. That's a little ridiculous.
DeleteAnd that is outside the scope of my post and this discussion.
DeleteOh, OK, I see. Since our founders risked their families and homes to gain freedom for religion, it's fine for Americans to expect to have it. But Germans haven't done that, therefore for them to do that now is unprecedented,therefore invalid, and for them to seek aid in a nation that cherishes religious freedom (let alone intellectual and educational freedom) is "ridiculous." I got it now, thanks for clearing it up for me.
ReplyDeleteAnd the Canadians have been perfectly comfortable with allowing war desenters in contrary to our laws (like when they were avoiding the draft during Vietnam) but then, maybe they have more backbone than we have.
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Delete*facepalm*
DeleteAs I said, outside the realm of my post. You are all free to argue legalities if you like, but that has nothing to do with my point, which I said at the beginning of the post.
Enforced schooling is what they have in Germany. You must attend school. You are forced outside any consideration of what you may feel is best for your own life. You are forced to attend school. What else would it be?
ReplyDeleteYou called my comments hyperbole. I am not using hyperbole. I am saying exactly what I mean. Just last week in a town near ours a news report came out about a girl being sexually assaulted repeatedly in school and the administration so far will not attend to the situation. (Maybe they have been made to face it after the report came out, I haven't looked at the story in about a week.) I have relatives that teach in the public school system. I have worked as a tutor for kids with learning disabilities in the public school system. My observations are not isolated. But the point is, I have a choice not to send my kids to places where I see these things happening. Germans don't. They should. It is a HUMAN right.
ANY asylum situation is going to be in opposition to the laws of the country the people are fleeing. Why else would they seek asylum?
Kerri, the situation in Germany is different. Yes, you must attend school, but if one school is not suitable, another will be found. Your voice is very much listened to and acknowledged. If something terrible happens to a child within the state school system; firstly, the authorities will have to deal with it; secondly, the parents of the other children in the school will also be involved in how it is dealt with; thirdly, if the child doesn't wish to return to that school places in other schools will be found for them.
DeleteThere is a great deal of choice, it's just that the choice to home-school is not an option. Nor is there the division between family and school that exists in the States. In the German school I attended parents were frequently in the school, either helping out in the classroom, or monitoring at break-time (recess). It is worth remembering how small and highly populated Europe is. Unless you live on an island, it's unlikely that there's only one school you can attend.
I'm truly sorry to hear about the distressing events that you reference in the State school system in the US, but there are many similar abuses carried out by home-schooling parents. This, in itself, does not make one system better or worse than the other.
Baroness, I am not primarily trying to make an argument that one system is better than the other, nor that all schools are bad and all homeschooling parents are all altruistic. It's true that some home school parents are abusive, but sending a kid to school doesn't in itself guarantee that abuse will not happen at home. And I would point out that just because some parents are bad, it doesn't mean that all parents should then be punished. My point is that people should have freedom. We have freedom in the states to chose, and so does Britain. If a family in Germany wants the freedoms we have isn't it a bit arrogant to tell them they shouldn't have what we have? (this is not the first story that I have heard about in Germany.)
ReplyDeleteAnd it may be that a child is better off in a setting that isn't institutional at all. That choice is not there.
I don't know if the legal route they took is the best one. I don't know the motives of the HSLDA. I'm not a member and I probably spend 5 minutes in a year thinking about them directly. I don't know the motives of the family. It may be that they are legalistic in their thinking, and it may be that they were acting on advice that they took in good faith and hoped they could accomplish something good. I don't know. But neither does Darcy. And the original tone of the post is very harsh and judgmental toward a family that is going through something difficult and the continued tone in the comments is rather arrogant. (Ironically, right after a post asking for grace within the church toward people who are trying to figure out what they believe, asking for freedom in the institutional church to hold ideas outside the mainstream, etc.) Usually I would just roll my eyes and pass on, but I've been reading Darcy's blog for a while, and I simply expected better. That's all.
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DeleteBut Kerri, this is EXACTLY my point! The Romeike's have the freedom of movement within the EU enshrined in law. The Romeike's come from South West Germany. They could so easily have moved over the border into Austria, Italy, or France where home-schooling is completely legal (and from where they can both work, claim benefits, have free healthcare, etc.), and not been more than an hour or two (remember how small Europe is!)in the car from their family and friends.
DeleteThis is what the majority of Germans who wish to home-school do. It may mean that Dad has a slightly longer commute to work, but it's no bigger a deal than someone in the US moving to the next-door state. Yet, the Romeike's uprooted their family to a new continent (as you say perhaps on poor advice from the HSLDA). How would you react to one of your neighbours claiming asylum in another country rather than moving an hour away to the next state?
I'm not sure which "anonymous" it is who thinks that "none of the German schools are adequate"? The ones that I have been in are perfectly adequate and many of them are outstanding. I know that you probably don't reckon that any of the US schools are any good either, but Germany is still ranked above the US in world rankings on Primary Education.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best-education-in-the-wor_n_2199795.html#slide=1810130
I have absolutely nothing against home-schooling, but I don't think that it is a reasonable justification for being granted asylum.
Wow, its seems like a lot of people are trolling here. Ha!
ReplyDeleteDarcy, I agree with you. This whole situation stinks, and I feel like this family is being used by HSLDA.
Also, I wonder, if the family were Muslim, or Hindu, or any other religion, would people be ready to back them up and come to their defense so quickly?
~Tori
That's a good question. I'm like 99% sure that they never would've been contacted by HSLDA had they not been True Christians(tm).
DeleteMany families have been torn apart because of attempts to flee certain laws from this particular country. That wouldn't be anything new.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI expect the Romeikes would temporarily comply with this tyrannical law in Germany in order to keep custody of their children. But they shouldn't need to. The United States plays host to millions of illegal immigrants from Mexico whose views are not persecuted by the laws of their home country in any way. President Obama is seeking to pursue a lenient policy to grant these illegal immigrants a path to legitimacy, while simultaneously working through the courts to deport the Romeikes. That might make sense if he was taking steps to deport all illegal immigrants, but that is not what this is about. This is about trying to marginalize homeschoolers and make it socially acceptable, in the long run, to force all children into government schools and this will be used to indoctrinate them with left wing propoganda as already happens in some schools.
ReplyDeleteOh please. You people need to get your facts straight. Obama has nothing to do with this.
DeleteI agree with you Benjamin, teachers unions and educational bureaucrats would love to see us gone. They don't get any profit off us and besides-we're embarrassing. Monopolies don't die easily, especially not when run by the government.
ReplyDeleteAnd Tori, I absolutely would have the same opinion no matter what faith the family is. For example I have written emails to the Swedish Embassy about Dominic Johansson and signed petitions concerning him. I don't think his family is Christian, they haven't really made it a point to say what their faith is.
I think it may have been a mistake to make this a religious issue. I believe in educational freedom. I also believe that human beings aren't meant to be raised primarily in an institutional setting. (I'm not against taking classes.) And for most classes, I think the internet makes most of the need for it obsolete. Those are my personal opinions about education, but I also realize other people are perfectly free to disagree with me and send their kids anywhere they like. Send them to military school if you want! I'm not stopping anyone. But there are those who want to stop me from being able to make my choice, and as far as they can be pushed back, I'm going to push and support those who also are pushing. If other people are more free, then I am more free.
Baroness, if you want to thrash HSLDA for giving them bad advice, have at it. That I don't really know. Maybe they are using the family, maybe they genuinely thought this was a good case to try to get things changed in Germany, I don't know. But that's not the same thing as judging the family personally. Maybe they really felt the Lord was leading them to do this to bring greater freedom to Germany. Stories trickle out from that country from time to time so it does appear that many people are discontent with the system.
But we're all human here. It just seems wrong to me to out and out judge their values. I don't know what I would do. I don't ever want to have to be in that situation, and when others are, I want to help them, not throw mud.
And I disagree that it isn't an issue for asylum. If they were forcing grown-ups to go to school for a certain amount of time each day, everyone would have an absolute fit. We don't see children as deserving the same rights as we have. Just because it happens and has been happening for a long time doesn't make it right.
ReplyDeleteThis is no case for asylum. They have private schools also for religious people in Germany. The other choice the family had, is to go to one of the neighboring country, or even come to the U.S. on legal visas!!
ReplyDeleteI am not a Christian. I am a non-theist.
ReplyDeleteSharing an opinion that is in low incidence on this blog, it seems that the potential deportation of this family is not an outcry against homeschooling. Rather, it is a firm stance against Young Earth Creationism and indirectly against a Christian-dominated America. Obviously Christians would not like this. They'd prefer to live in a country that supports their interpretation of the more justifiable biblical values (e.g. the right of parents to "teach children god's word" as opposed to stoning women who have sex before marriage).
However harsh the deportation of this family may seem, however many parallels christian homeschoolers may find in their own lives, this issue must be looked at from an intellectual standpoint. The only logical reason German authorities would prohibit this family homeschooling is if they had reasonable cause to believe the children were being severely educated (or indoctrinated, if you will) into a state where they would be of danger to themselves or society, e.g. through the perpetration of a logic-defying system of concepts (perhaps intellectually equivalent to non-militant fascism).
Evidently, the German government has engaged in some form of persecution. However, it is INTELLECTUAL persecution, rather than religious. Personally, I believe families have a right to not have their children taken from them, provided there is no obvious danger to themselves or others. But what about religious schools? If their beliefs are so controversial even religious schools defy them, should their children be taught the same? What if the minority radical islam ("jihad"-pushing) subculture in the USA was allowed to exclusively educate their children? Allowing only Christians to do so is clear religious persecution. Evidently, the persecution the family experienced is not reasonable cause to claim asylum. Pushing this a little further, is it reasonable for mentally-unfit people to claim asylum for being kept in an asylum?
Controversial to the general trend here as they are, I stand by my conclusions.
I'm amazed that people feel in the family they will be brainwashed, but, of course none of that goes on in the public schools. They will never tell you that evolution is fact, global warming is fact, or that George W. Bush was evil.... right??
ReplyDeleteEvolution IS a fact, global warming IS a fact, and Bush was stupid,but I can't give him credit for being evil. That would take brains which he obviously doesn't have. And I didn't learn that in public school. ;) Also, it's a fallacy to try to distract from the argument at hand by throwing up another argument.
DeleteAfter reading a good portion of the comments I would like to say all public schools are not alike, nor is all homeschooling always the best way.
ReplyDeleteI attended public schools eons ago and yes even back then evolution was taught as well as sex education. However to those of us who believed that God was the creator evolution was a myth like a fairy tale. We knew what we believed and why we believed it and that settled it in our minds. There were no young/old earth discussions it was just assumed the earth was billions of years old and that God was the creator of all, period. So why is it today that parents are so afraid for their children to hear differing views? We formed our views from hearing Gods Word both at church and at home. We understood opposing views from being exposed to all points of view and understood how to discuss them.
What is being lost in this discussion is what is best for the child not only spiritually but socially and academically. Some children thrive being homeschooled, some thrive in public school, and others by being in private schools. Neither of my daughters were home schooled. Both attended Christian schools (Lutheran). One graduated from public school the other from a Christian school. The key is communication not isolation. It is also checking out the school beforehand. I have 10 grandchildren some homeschooled, some private Christian schooled, some public schooled. Each of them is being educated in the way that is best for them as individuals. I have one little granddaughter that public school just isn’t working for who will probably be homeschooled next year. Her siblings on the other hand are thriving in the same school. It is a matter of knowing your child and doing what is best for them. It is also a matter of discarding fear and trusting God for that child.
Darcy I have been reading your blog for a long time and always find it refreshing, honest and enlightening. What you are saying needs to be heard, thanks for speaking up.
Hi Darcy!
ReplyDeleteI've read portions of your blog before and was impressed! I agree with all of it.
I have been following this case extensively, but am not entirely "against" your presentation of this family's case.
I just have a few questions...
1st, You said to one of the other commentators that your believed in the Bible and evolution? Is that correct? Until now, I had not heard of believing both... so I'm just trying to understand. :p If you believe in both, does that make you a Christian? Thanks in advance for the explanation. :p
2nd, Another commentator said that it depends on what is best for the individual child (as far as schooling is concerned). Do you agree? If so, then since the Romeike children hated public and private school, wasn't it best for the parents to homeschool them?
3rd, The Romeike grandfather said how against homeschooling he was, after he saw how amazing it was though, he wished he had done it with his own children! What are you're thoughts on that?
4th, I'm sure your kids are very smart, but (please take no offense to next few sentences) wouldn't you rather teach them at home? Where YOU can control what they hear and don't hear? Plus, YOU can spend more time with them than their teachers. Wouldn't that be better for YOU?
Okay, one last thing... :p My personal opinion as to why some people are against homeschooling is because.... 1, some homeschool parents lock their children inside the house, and the child can't be exposed to others. Therefore, they are awkward, wimpy, and scared of their own shadow. 2, because some homeschool parents think their child is precious, and (because the child hasn't been around other kids) the child believes they are precious,once they get out with others, they realize they aren't that cute! :p
3, because people expect homeschoolers to be dumb. Which in most cases is not true. homeschoolers (and other scholars)are smart.
Now I seen these cases I just mentioned. While their are some like those, the general homeschool population is not wimpy, not "precious" and not dumb.
The real problem for me with public or private schools, is that the teachers spend more time with the child then the parents! And the kids don't have much free time, to play and be kids. Plus, the things that are taught...
All that said, I don't have that much of a problem with you post... just basically these things I've listed... if I am wrong on anything, please correct me! :p Please also type me back your feelings on the questions I've asked.
1. it's called theistic evolution or evolutionary creation. It's the belief that God created the universe and He used what we know or as evolution to do so. Check out this site for more involved answers and definitions: http://biologos.org/questions/biologos-id-creationism
Delete2. I believe in freedom of education. But, no, in this case, it was not better to homeschool because homeschooling meant they risked losing their children forever. I made that very clear in my post.
3. He changed his mind. Good for him. What does that have to do with the premise of my post?
4. No, my kids would not be better off homeschooling, and I would not be a better mother if I homeschooled them. For a myriad of reasons. Some of which include my children's special needs, the fact I am also currently a student and later will be working outside my home, the fact hat our relationships have improved greatly since I am just "mom", not teacher, the lack of stress and how much more peaceful our home is, and the good quality of education they are receiving. Although this too has nothing to do with anything I wrote here. I certainly do spend more time with my kids than their teachers do. Do the math. I have no problem sharing my kids and allowing others to help form their lives.
On #2, For me, it would be very difficult for me to send my children off to school each day, to a place they hated. it would be much easier for me to teach them at home where they could be happy.
ReplyDelete#3 The meaning of me telling you was basically... this is a person who was so against homeschooling, but like most people against homeschooling, 1, he was against it for no reason! 2, He had never seen homeschooling first hand! 3, He didn't realize until he saw homeschooling how much he and his children would have benefitted from it if he had done it! So that point didn't have much to do with your post, just thought I should throw it out there. :p
4, I did not know you were a student. I think that is fantastic! And if that is what you are doing fine! :) I met someone the other day doing that, and was fine with it. :)
While I have no problem "sharing" my kids either, I think I should be their main educator. That does not mean others have to agree with that. I believe that I should be the one teaching my kids sex-ed instead of a teacher they barely know. That is just going to confuse them. :) Now, if you disagree with me and the Romeike family, that is fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. :p
Thanks! :)
Very well said, and you are absolutely right.
ReplyDelete