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Friday, August 27, 2010

Answering Anonymous...Again.

I received an anonymous comment on my post about the Botkins' marriage article. Although the lady put it there, it seems to refer to most of my blog posts in general. Since many of us from legalistic backgrounds hear these sentiments often, I thought I would address them for all to see.

Here is what she wrote:

"This all just goes to show that we should never follow one person's/ organization's views on everything, but take the good from each. EVERYTHING should be tested against God and His Word first.
I am a very happily married, home schooling mother of 13. I have made mistakes and hope that my children will not judge me as harshly as some of you are doing towards your own parents. I am sure most of them meant well. You will make mistakes, too, not the same ones necessarily but mistakes none the less. You will beg for God's mercy and grace as you see the results of your own personal mistakes in your children.
It would be healthier to get on with your lives and not have a victim mentality forever. It is best to forget the past and press on towards the prize..."


I addressed some of this in my guest posts on Quivering Daughters, entitled "Abusing Abuse?". But I will now address them here. Again.

I never follow anyone's or any organization's views. I judge the merit of all things by what is written or spoken. I am not a follower of anyone. When it comes to my religious beliefs, I'm pretty much a mutt. But I assume that's not what you meant. I am judging by your comment that you generally agree with the Botkins but perhaps not on this particular subject. You seem to be cautioning us "not to throw the baby out with the bathwater" because these people have many good things to say. That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. But let me be very clear here. When it comes to Visionary Daughters, Vision Forum, and all their associates and affiliates, or anyone who promotes the Patriarchial system, I do not believe there is any baby in the bathwater. I stand for everything they stand against. Every scripture they interpret, every issue they expound on, their very foundations for their beliefs....I disagree with them all. Matter of fact, their ideas and beliefs disgust me. As far back as their very foundational proof-text, the creation story, we disagree. Why? Because I DO "test everything against God's Word" and I have found them in error. Now that that is cleared up, on to your next point.

You said: "I have made mistakes and hope that my children will not judge me as harshly as some of you are doing towards your own parents."

But I thought that we weren't supposed to follow everyone's views, but instead test them by God's word?

That is exactly what I, and others like me, are doing here. We are taking the teaching of our parents and weighing them....denouncing the bad and clinging to the good. I don't believe this to be "judging" as you call it. It merely digging out the good from the bad.

Allow me to quote myself:

"Yes, healing is our choice. But we first have to recognize the wound in order to apply the correct balm. Ignoring it, or telling yourself to "just get over it" won't work. If I've grown up with the belief that I am only pleasing to God if I perform correctly, then I must see the lie in that messege, and apply the correct truth. The lie: that any works of righteousness can make me acceptable to God. The Truth: "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" and "when we were still without strength, Christ died for the ungodly" and "He has made you accepted in the Beloved".

This is not a "blame game". We do not believe in sitting around and blaming our parents, church, friends, whomever for our pain and the consequences thereof. But the fact is, there are things passed down to us from our parents that contributed, if not outright caused, certain wounds in our lives. This is true for everyone, regardless of religious beliefs. Acknowledging this, recognizing it, and discussing it is not the same thing as blaming others. I believe in family wounds and generational curses/pain. A woman who was told she was never good enough is going to pass that lie to her daughters and they to their daughters unless it is acknowledged and healed by the Healer. I can see some lies and strongholds in myself that were present in my grandfather. I am not blaming him, just recognizing where the lie started and looking at all the heartache it has caused in subsequent generations. I also know that it does not have to be this way. That lie and the wounds inflicted by it can stop with me. I do not have to pass it on to my children. I will not; I refuse. I'm sure my mother would have said the same had she but known to even look for it. Had she not been told "You're fine, get over it."

This is why we even bring this up. Not only so that we can live from a healed, whole heart, but for our children and our children's children. Broken people produce more broken people. It is an endless cycle of pain and brokeness and the Enemy of our souls loves it. Ignoring it will only perpetuate the pain. The Church today has very little understanding about matters of the heart and this has to stop. It is because of people saying "Buck up, stop blaming everyone else, get over it" that there is so much brokeness and dysfunction among Christians today. We've ignored our pain and the causes for too long and are now reaping the harvest of broken people, broken families. Christ's little ones are stumbling and falling and being told to "get over it" because their wounds aren't visible to the world. These things ought not to be."


You said: "You will make mistakes, too, not the same ones necessarily but mistakes none the less. You will beg for God's mercy and grace as you see the results of your own personal mistakes in your children. It would be healthier to get on with your lives and not have a victim mentality forever. It is best to forget the past and press on towards the prize..."
"

As for my own children, I know I will hurt them. I know that I have made and will make mistakes. But I have something that my own parents didn't. I have an understanding of my own pain...where it came from, how it came, and how to end it. Because I dare to go where they didn't: into the darkness of my own heart, and the pain of my own past. I don't expect to do anything in this life perfectly, certainly not when it comes to raising my kids. But I would never tell them not to judge me, to ignore the pain I caused them, and to "get over it". My oldest is 4 years old and I am already practicing how to admit I was wrong and apologize.

I don't have to beg God for grace and mercy. He freely lavishes it on me so that I might in turn lavish it on my children. I am not offended when my daughter tells me she doesn't like me. Instead, we talk about it, work through it, and I tell her I am sorry when I am wrong. We are practicing grace and communication now while it is easy so that later, when it becomes more complicated, grace and communication will be an integral part of our relationship.

You said: "I have made mistakes and hope that my children will not judge me as harshly as some of you are doing towards your own parents. I am sure most of them meant well."

I've said this elsewhere, and I'll say it again. It is not a strength to deny pain. Nor is it a strength to ignore inner wounds and say "well, my parents had good motives so I won't worry about the outcome and actions caused by those motives." I'm fairly certain the Puritans who killed hundreds of innocent women, the Jesuits who tortured natives "to convert them", the Mormons who practiced blood atonement to save people's souls, and others who have used God's name for horrible things had "good motives". What makes a teaching good or bad? The motives of those who teach it?

I will never use the excuse "I meant well". Because that's all it is: an excuse to not own up to my own sin. Sometimes I think we use that line on others because it makes us feel better about our own problems and mistakes. But I personally don't care how well I meant. If I've hurt people, my well-meaning doesn't negate their pain.


Do the motives of the people who hurt me negate the pain they caused? I think not. I can appreciate that they really wanted what was best for me. But can I be honest? There were times when I am certain that all they wanted was what was best for them. That their desires for their own lives overrided their desires for my good. And that they couldn't even tell the difference. Is it "judging" them by saying so? I don't think so. It's just sayin' how things were.

I don't resent them, though I certainly did at one time. I am not bitter toward them, though God had to do much healing in my heart in the past. We actually have a pretty good relationship now. Only God couldn've woven our lives with the healing, forgiveness, and relationship that we have now. We're not perfect and we have a long way to go. But none of this could've been possible without first going right where you say we shouldn't: into the pain, darkness, mistakes, and sin of our hearts and the hearts of our parents.

Allow me, one more time, to leave you with something I wrote not too long ago:

"Jesus said "Come unto Me, all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest". But how can we get that rest unless we first admit we need it? How can we leave our burdens with Him unless we first admit we have a burden? Ignoring the burden or downplaying its effect on our lives will not make it go away. It will only cause us to live a half-hearted life and when we die, to pass that burden on to our children. Brothers and sisters, I beg you, do not perpetuate pain by ignoring, comparing, downplaying, and telling others to "get over it". And stop critisizing those who are recognizing wounds, denouncing lies, and inviting healing into their pain-wracked hearts. Be cautious lest you find yourselves fighting against the very God you serve. In the words of a very wise man, "And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it---lest you even be found to fight against God." Acts 5:38,39""


I encourage you, and anyone who has the same sentiments, to read a few of the other posts, such as Stories, and Abusing Abuse? (and part 2), so you can get a better idea of why I write and what my heart is.

24 comments:

  1. Beautifully stated, Darcy. Loved this line in particular...

    "I stand for everything they stand against."

    Me too.

    I appreciate how you've addressed your past.

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  2. Yesw, yes, yes! Thankyou so much. I'm so sick of hearing how nothing in my past should have any bearing on my current life because Christ healed all that. (Implication: If I still feel any effects I must not be saved.) Ugh!!!

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  3. "I do not believe there is any baby in the bathwater."
    That statement is just brilliant.

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  4. Good point. If the person was genuinely concerned about that, then she'd be willing to discuss how to appropriately separate the "baby" and the "bathwater."

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  5. Why do we as Christians think that reconciliation comes through painting over our sin? It seems to me that true reconciliation comes when we repent of our sin in the way Zacchaeus did, doing everything to right the wrongs we've performed, and asking for forgiveness. Reconciliation comes when a person is willing to humble himself or herself and admit that he or she was wrong, and turns his or her back on sin.
    Excellent post, Darcy!

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  6. Oh, Darcy! This was amazing!!! Such an amazing post! I don't even know what to say...

    Other than you have completely stated my heart and my life and my feelings on these things perfectly and sucintly.

    Well written. I loved it. Keep writing!

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  7. I'm with Christi. Brilliant statement1!!

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  8. Don't worry, I won't stop writing anytime soon. I'm a woman of many words and even more opinions. ;)

    Thanks for the kind words, everyone!

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  9. This all comes down to having an attitude which is contrary to Jesus' attitude. It's all about "me, me, me and what I have been through in this hard life." You can't be a victim forever or else you will stay bitter and angry for the rest of your life.
    You said, "It is not a strength to deny pain." Neither is it a strength to define a big part of your life by your past. Don't you want to move on???

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  10. I just have one question (since you obviously didn't listen to a word I said):

    Why do you care???

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  11. You do not try to understand anything I say. I got the part where you said you were not bitter anymore, but bitterness still seems to come out. For instance, continuing to discuss wounds and past sorrows serves no purpose. If I had hurt my children the way you say you have been hurt by your parents, I would be upset by just such a site, no matter how much my daughter claimed to forgive me. And I would be very concerned that she WASN"T healed because dredging up these past mistakes would be awful. Some of the comments you are getting apart from what I have written seem VERY bitter and angry. This is not healing. This site and ones like it, seem to breed malcontent, bitterness and unforgiveness. I am sure you and your readers disagree. So maybe I should realize this and go no further in my observations, continuing to raise my seemingly happy children.

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  12. I tried to post another comment, but it was too long. Is there an email address I could send it to? I can't see one on this site and it addresses your question of why I care, better.

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  13. You keep crying "bitterness" where there is none. I cannot speak for my readers. But I can speak for my own heart. And since you don't know me, I would appreciate it if you took my word on it. I am not bitter. Toward my parents or anyone else.

    I asked that question honestly. Why, if you disagree with everything I say and think I am wrong, do you disregard what I write and accuse me of attitudes that aren't there? Why does it matter to you? And if it really did matter, why are you afraid of putting your name where your beliefs are?

    My public e-mail is darcysheartstirrings@gmail.com. You are more than welcome to e-mail me but I will not continue this discussion with a person who isn't even willing to tell me who they are.

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  14. Anonymous...I'd genuinely suggest that you examine your motive for commenting, measuring to see if it's out of genuine concern for Darcy and her readers, or if it's out of concern for the defense of a lifestyle which you've made a large investment into - a lifestyle being exposed as fatally flawed in foundational areas by sites like this one.

    If the latter is true, that's all the more evidence of the need for what this site represents. Too much of this stuff is stifled, and no one would benefit by any more of it being swept under the rug...except those who insist on continuing in the lifestyle despite it's foundational flaws.

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  15. Lewis, I realize that when a person disagrees with the basic tenets of a web site, he should expect attempts to be shot down. I have read some of your writings and read your brief story.
    My husband and I do not practice Patriarchy if it is what I am reading about on some web pages, where girls have no say in whom they will marry, where woman just keep having babies because they feel like they are supposed to. I honestly cannot understand some of these stories. I am not saying I don't believe them, I just don't think they are common. I know too many very large, home schooling families where the father is the leader (but the mother is respected, cherished, and truly loved) Please don't tell me I can't see behind closed doors, I have practically lived with too many of these families. By definition, we are very conservative Christians. My husband and I practice mutual love and respect between ourselves and our children and yes, we do home school. He is the leader who does not make a move without me, and would not want to. We have a very large family via biology and adoption. We send our children to college, girls and boys, if that's what they want. We both wanted a large family. We could easily be labeled as following cultish tendencies if we were just looked at from the outside by people such as the ones who have formed preconceived notions from these types of web sites. I do believe we practice Patriarchy as defined by more sane definition. We belong to a large church with a great variation in Christian expression.
    Thank you for the suggestion, but I am sure that each of us can be kept busy enough examining his own motives without reminding others to do so. I think some of you, who write on the web, are possibly liking the attention and now, I hear, writing books? Yet I should not be suspicious of YOUR motives? Please do not continue to encourage young people whose parents may have made mistakes or perhaps disagree with you in how children should be raised, to look at their parents and other Christians in their lives with new suspicion. Besides, there is nothing to be gained in spending years after the fact in rehashing old wounds, causing them to fester.

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  16. I'm not sure if every Anonymous is the same, or if different people are posting anonymously.

    Anon 7:14 wrote:
    We could easily be labeled as following cultish tendencies if we were just looked at from the outside by people such as the ones who have formed preconceived notions from these types of web sites. I do believe we practice Patriarchy as defined by more sane definition. We belong to a large church with a great variation in Christian expression.
    Thank you for the suggestion, but I am sure that each of us can be kept busy enough examining his own motives without reminding others to do so. I think some of you, who write on the web, are possibly liking the attention and now, I hear, writing books?


    Unfortunately the situations on this blog and other similar ones (mine, Lewis', etc) are not from those "outside". It's wonderful that your experience and that of your friends is great; in humility I ask that you remember that some have not had such great experiences and are seeking the Lord with how they live and heal and grow in Him...if your heart is to help, then please understand that comments like the ones you've left are not helpful to growth but prayer is. And if your heart is not to help, that is sad. “Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.” (Luke 11:52) Please don't hinder those seeking to understand their struggles and God's healing and plan for them.

    Is it so far-fetched to believe that just as you follow the Lord's calling for you, Darcy, myself, and others follow the Lord's calling for us? Why would you seek to discourage us from obedience to Him? With all humility, that is not a godly thing to do. You are certainly allowed to disagree, but common courtesy (online or IRL) is to assume the best. "Love believes all things, hopes all things..." We address facts....fruits. We can address the fruits of sin AND love those who have unwittingly facilitated them! Anyone who truly loves their children would not begrudge this.

    "...let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.”(Acts 5:38-39)

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  17. Anonymous, you're free to question my motives, and you're also free to ask me any question you choose about my stated positions... and unstated positions. I'll gladly answer.

    I'm encouraging young people to follow Christ and the direction of the Holy Spirit at all costs. I think this is what Darcy, and those like her, are doing as well. If this clashes with your view of a healthy dynamic, I think you'd do well to question the motives behind your opinions and feelings. I'd think, as a Christian parent, this would be your goal.

    I think your concern here is more for the defense of a lifestyle than with genuine right and wrong. I can't help but draw that conclusion based on your reasoning given for commenting, much less on why you'd be reading Darcy's, or my own, blog. If I'm wrong, please do correct me.

    Nothing that any of us write should pose any threat whatsoever to a Christian parent who isn't attempting to control and engineer the lives of their children. In fact, people like Darcy, Hillary, and me write to an adult audience, an audience that should be free to choose what they believe, and if they've been pointed to Christ and encouraged to grow in Him, should be able to discern and sort through that which is true and that which is false when presented with the information.

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  18. Anonymous wrote:

    "Besides, there is nothing to be gained in spending years after the fact in rehashing old wounds, causing them to fester."

    Actually, ignoring wounds and avoiding the pain and hassle of cleaning, dressing, and bandaging them causes them to fester. Besides, what I see in Darcy's writing is a desire to show others experiencing the same kind of wound she once suffered that, yes, their pain is real, and that there is healing to be found. If you and your family have never experienced this kind of pain, that's great. I'm happy for you. But it's wrong to deny the experiences of those who have, because to deny the existence of their injury is to deny them healing.

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  19. I have some thoughts which I will post to your e-mail, Darcy, as it is too long. I welcome a discussion.

    In the Love of Jesus,
    Cara

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  20. I KNOW who your anonymous is, and I disagree with most of what she has to say...I'm a 50 yr old woman, around Her age, or she's a bit younger or older. Thank you Darcy!!

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  21. I would love for my husband to be reading this kind of thing. He's not sold out on VF's vision, but he is tainted from long association. When our daughters and I have tried to talk to him about our concerns, I think he discounts us. He has been tainted enough to filter our words as coming from discontent. He's discontented himself, so it makes sense to him to think that. Is there a blog/blogs written by men that also show forth these glaring departures from the truth of the whole of Scripture?

    I don't mean to discount your words because you're a woman. But then, that's part of the problem of being stuck inside the movement, isn't it...?

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    Replies
    1. I'm trying to think about your question....there's Lewis' blog: http://thecommandmentsofmen.blogspot.com/

      I post others if I can think of them.

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    2. Thank you. I'll check out the blog you mentioned (I've seen links leading there from other blogs I've been reading the past week or two) and will check back here again, too.

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